time sport at 8 west (cryptworks)

drhans

Senior Member
Messages
116
Channel 3610 is using cryptoworks.

Nothing is fake

I seriously think you should learn how to analyze the stream and contribute with real information

Speaking of analyzing... don't you see the PMT table for ch 3610 just references non-existing PIDs? And carrying a CA descriptor for 0D00 doesn't mean shit. Since when is a descriptor in PMT relevant to channel being actually scrambled? Many systems don't even put the descriptor in PMT. Also, ECM PID 1234 looks totally just like a test. 0D00 is perhaps some random CAID the person doing this test remembered, maybe from old hacking days, who knows.
 

kebien

Well Known Member
Messages
1,329
Speaking of analyzing... don't you see the PMT table for ch 3610 just references non-existing PIDs? And carrying a CA descriptor for 0D00 doesn't mean shit. Since when is a descriptor in PMT relevant to channel being actually scrambled? Many systems don't even put the descriptor in PMT. Also, ECM PID 1234 looks totally just like a test. 0D00 is perhaps some random CAID the person doing this test remembered, maybe from old hacking days, who knows.

As a way to out it in a simple way : DVB rules makes mandatory to use CA descriptor in PMT,as to outline which ECM pid will be used for this CA,and symulcrypt allows many CA to be outlined in PMT in order for IRDs to find their appropriate ECM to use.
All our emulators are coded to respect that,so there is no other way to select an ECM for a specific CA.
So,lets say it mean A LOT !!!,and is never fake or misguiding.
In any case,the information is present and real,then comes the part of the provider sending correct data.
Let's agree many providers or their engineers know very little about DVB rules (we just have seen some TS where wrong information was sent in the first 32 pids that are reserved,so....)

The non existing pids has nothing to do with the PMT not properly configured.
The idea of the analysis goes around understanding descriptors and their meaning,and that TS has a correct PMT,regardless it might point out to non existing pids,or unused.
You must pay attention to the correct analysis,otherwise how could you know there are missing pids without looking at the PMT?
You never could.
It is clear the descriptor 0x09 and its data length of 0x04 is saying 0x0d00 cryptoworks encryption is carried in pid 0x1234.
If the pid is missing then is not a PMT problem.
If the service is FTA then the encryption flag could be set anyway,while video might not be encrypted at all,and a FTA ird can open it,while a cryptoworks ird might not,since it tries to find a unused pid or non existant.
Providers might do things for a reason,not just to mess with occasional viewers,but maybe with their own subscribers.
Again,the TS analysis is correct,in spite of missing pids.
 

drhans

Senior Member
Messages
116
I'm not trying to argue, really. But I just don't agree with the analysis conclusions...

As a way to out it in a simple way : DVB rules makes mandatory to use CA descriptor in PMT,as to outline which ECM pid will be used for this CA,and symulcrypt allows many CA to be outlined in PMT in order for IRDs to find their appropriate ECM to use.
All our emulators are coded to respect that,so there is no other way to select an ECM for a specific CA.
So,lets say it mean A LOT !!!,and is never fake or misguiding.
In any case,the information is present and real,then comes the part of the provider sending correct data.
Let's agree many providers or their engineers know very little about DVB rules (we just have seen some TS where wrong information was sent in the first 32 pids that are reserved,so....)

Yes you are right... I should have said that CA descriptors are not always in the outer descriptor loop. But they're in PMT.

But a descriptor alone isn't enough. I've seen streams with CA descriptors even though there was never such ECM. It was either a bug in the CAS, people not caring or an attempt to confuse pirate emulators. So if noone has ever seen the ECM PID for a certain CA descriptor, I wouldn't be so sure that the channel is using Cryptoworks. The only evidence of Cryptoworks being used would be the presence of Cryptorowks ECM or EMM. Nothing else is convincing enough. And there's no Cryptoworks ECM nor EMM in the stream.

The non existing pids has nothing to do with the PMT not properly configured.

Yes, PMT is fine, but it's a DVB problem - it's a TR 101 290 priority 1 error! So the TS is wrong and can't be taken seriously.

Again,the TS analysis is correct,in spite of missing pids.

Yes, the analysis of PMT is correct but it's not correct to assume that the channel is scrambled using Cryptoworks and that you can get some key to descramble it ... mostly because there's nothing to descramble :)

So the original quote...
kebien said:
Channel 3610 is using cryptoworks.

Nothing is fake

Was just something I wanted to react on. Because from the screenshots it looks like the whole channel is a ghost.

Of course this is just a matter of technical debate and philosophical discussion about what defines a channel and if a channel can "use Cryptoworks" if there's no ECM and no video. What really drove me crazy is stupid stuff like

paytv said:
Whst hehehe @enosat speak fake
 

Rickk

Well Known Member
Messages
2,375
i do not understand why this is still on the stupid comments and questions from paytv
this professional is in several forums around and talking only garbage
 
Messages
22
i do not understand why this is still on the stupid comments and questions from paytv
this professional is in several forums around and talking only garbage

you are right..
he is on all forums, interest about conax, nagra and now see cryptoworks.. he really no known nothing.. i think he will be maybe 12-13 year old adolescent where like spammed forums
 

kebien

Well Known Member
Messages
1,329
I'm not trying to argue, really. But I just don't agree with the analysis conclusions...



Yes you are right... I should have said that CA descriptors are not always in the outer descriptor loop. But they're in PMT.

But a descriptor alone isn't enough. I've seen streams with CA descriptors even though there was never such ECM. It was either a bug in the CAS, people not caring or an attempt to confuse pirate emulators. So if noone has ever seen the ECM PID for a certain CA descriptor, I wouldn't be so sure that the channel is using Cryptoworks. The only evidence of Cryptoworks being used would be the presence of Cryptorowks ECM or EMM. Nothing else is convincing enough. And there's no Cryptoworks ECM nor EMM in the stream.



Yes, PMT is fine, but it's a DVB problem - it's a TR 101 290 priority 1 error! So the TS is wrong and can't be taken seriously.



Yes, the analysis of PMT is correct but it's not correct to assume that the channel is scrambled using Cryptoworks and that you can get some key to descramble it ... mostly because there's nothing to descramble :)

So the original quote...


Was just something I wanted to react on. Because from the screenshots it looks like the whole channel is a ghost.

Of course this is just a matter of technical debate and philosophical discussion about what defines a channel and if a channel can "use Cryptoworks" if there's no ECM and no video. What really drove me crazy is stupid stuff like
Peace

I understand what you say,sometimes the information do not help you understand certain situations in the stream.
The why's and where.
 

barney115

Donating Member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
24,846
i think this topic has now been exhausted
and to save any further silly arguments
i will shortly close this topic
if there is no valid objections as to why it should remain open ?
 
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