I will very much regret it. First of all the infuriating patronisation, coupled with a general sulk if you dare to disagree with anything. Secondly I'd end up with a dish with nowhere to go, as explained above. Lastly I already have the c-band adaptation kit for my 1.8. It does not impress.
3m mesh dish in the UK
- Thread starter Bonz
- Start date
Well they're not local, but the only people I can find online who supply mesh dishes are RF Hamdesign in the Netherlands. Going through their price list now. Dish price seems reasonable but once you add in all the gubbings (controller, motor etc) I think you've not got much change out of 5k. Then there's post Brexit shipping....
Really? I'll try him tomorrow then. If he's around that makes everything easier. I could probably just buy a dish on its own and he can sort out everything else. He reminds me of the professor from Back to the Future. Very keen on bespoke solutions. Lots of welding.
If I may. I've provided a link below of a conversation for using small dishes for c band reception.
My personal findings for signal strength for usable channel display of ku band vs c band would be as follows. Just for information.
My 4m dish has a prime focus linear lnbf for c band. And I have added a "sidecar" Geosat pro linear ku band lnbf. The mounting of it requires an offset of appx. 5-6 degrees aiming at ku sats. more east than c band sats.
Being it is designed for an offset dish in the 1-2 meter diameter. My dish "illumination" is using only a portion of the dish diameter. Of course a proper prime focus lnbf would be the best. Or an orthomode feed with intcorporated scalar. I determined the illumination circle by using a few pieces of aluminized foam board insulation and pinching off the edges of the dish surface. Watching for a decrease in signal.
Signal:
After installing the ku lnbf and peaking it for signal. I noticed that my first received transponders had a "low" signal strength of maybe 6-9 dB.
Scanned FTA channels came in crystal clear. But there was some occasional overlap of receiving adjacent satellites. And resulted in using the degree filter in scanning settings.
At first it caused a bit of confusion as to what satellite I was actually receiving.
That is where an old Dreamlink T5 came in handy. As Enigma 2 receiver haven't seemed to pick up the beacon I.D. of satellites as far as I know.
On c band, If you do not have a received signal in the 9.5 dB and up range. You get poor channel display. And a difficult transponder lock.
Weak transponders is what I use to peak the lnbf positioning.
Ku band content here is not as fulfilling as it may be on your side of the pond. C band is really where it's at. So, my quickie ku band lnbf sidecar install works just fine.
Just a bit of personal findings if you are interested in investing in a possible undersized dish and expecting equal performance as you do with ku band. Hope you find it informative.
My personal findings for signal strength for usable channel display of ku band vs c band would be as follows. Just for information.
My 4m dish has a prime focus linear lnbf for c band. And I have added a "sidecar" Geosat pro linear ku band lnbf. The mounting of it requires an offset of appx. 5-6 degrees aiming at ku sats. more east than c band sats.
Being it is designed for an offset dish in the 1-2 meter diameter. My dish "illumination" is using only a portion of the dish diameter. Of course a proper prime focus lnbf would be the best. Or an orthomode feed with intcorporated scalar. I determined the illumination circle by using a few pieces of aluminized foam board insulation and pinching off the edges of the dish surface. Watching for a decrease in signal.
Signal:
After installing the ku lnbf and peaking it for signal. I noticed that my first received transponders had a "low" signal strength of maybe 6-9 dB.
Scanned FTA channels came in crystal clear. But there was some occasional overlap of receiving adjacent satellites. And resulted in using the degree filter in scanning settings.
At first it caused a bit of confusion as to what satellite I was actually receiving.
That is where an old Dreamlink T5 came in handy. As Enigma 2 receiver haven't seemed to pick up the beacon I.D. of satellites as far as I know.
On c band, If you do not have a received signal in the 9.5 dB and up range. You get poor channel display. And a difficult transponder lock.
Weak transponders is what I use to peak the lnbf positioning.
Ku band content here is not as fulfilling as it may be on your side of the pond. C band is really where it's at. So, my quickie ku band lnbf sidecar install works just fine.
Just a bit of personal findings if you are interested in investing in a possible undersized dish and expecting equal performance as you do with ku band. Hope you find it informative.
Do you and others think a 1.5m Gibbo could pick up c-band signals if set up correctly and using
the best available lnb+feedhorn+rings etc?
Francescone
Member
- Messages
- 689
No, too small. At least it is too small for good feed reception.
Maybe you could get some channel, but not feeds.
manic01
Super VIP
- Messages
- 2,517
Need to start a separate thread my friend, this thread will get confusing otherwise.
Perhaps it could get a bit confusing. Please please refer to the link I provided above. These guys start out with an adequate sized dish and "go backwards" to experiment as to what they can receive using smaller and smaller dishes.
Under no situation should a person using under a 2.4m dish to receive c band expect to experience anything but marginal performance. No exceptions.
It would be a great idea to first look at sites such as satbeams to check if you are in the footprint sweet spot of any c band satellite you think you would like to receive.
If you get above 3 meters with a good quality dish for c band then you can expect to compare it to what you receive with your current ku setup.
Old, used dishes that "sag" or are deformed from age just a few cm on the rims can cost several dB signal strength.
But. To honest. The smallest reflector I ever tried to use back in the analog days was a 2 meter dish given to me unused in a box. It was a bummer.
In the link above. Post #4. This guy is good! I mean real good.
Signals in the 4-7 dB range will be very broken up if you can get a semi stable lock on them.
If you look at post #15 he reports stable viewing at 11 dB. That is one and only one tp of the entire satellite that has many strong transponders easily approaching 15.5-17 dB on an adequate sized dish.
And please remember if you don't realize it. Every 3 dB increase is 2X the signal.
Good weather is mentioned. A clear night with no sun interference is mentioned also. And if you read somewhere that c band is rain and fog resistant. It's not. On a big dish, heavy rain and snow will still kill a signal. But not as bad as total ku band obliteration with the same weather.
I shall let everyone decide. You have the real information if you're ready to plop down the money for something way undersized that may only give you a channel or 2.
I would like to add. If you have a dish already. At least 2.4m in size. A few quid for an lnbf won't be a total waste. But don't purchase anything fancy. And buy the best low loss coax you can afford. You will need every single bit of signal at the receiver you can get.
Good luck.
Under no situation should a person using under a 2.4m dish to receive c band expect to experience anything but marginal performance. No exceptions.
It would be a great idea to first look at sites such as satbeams to check if you are in the footprint sweet spot of any c band satellite you think you would like to receive.
If you get above 3 meters with a good quality dish for c band then you can expect to compare it to what you receive with your current ku setup.
Old, used dishes that "sag" or are deformed from age just a few cm on the rims can cost several dB signal strength.
But. To honest. The smallest reflector I ever tried to use back in the analog days was a 2 meter dish given to me unused in a box. It was a bummer.
In the link above. Post #4. This guy is good! I mean real good.
Signals in the 4-7 dB range will be very broken up if you can get a semi stable lock on them.
If you look at post #15 he reports stable viewing at 11 dB. That is one and only one tp of the entire satellite that has many strong transponders easily approaching 15.5-17 dB on an adequate sized dish.
And please remember if you don't realize it. Every 3 dB increase is 2X the signal.
Good weather is mentioned. A clear night with no sun interference is mentioned also. And if you read somewhere that c band is rain and fog resistant. It's not. On a big dish, heavy rain and snow will still kill a signal. But not as bad as total ku band obliteration with the same weather.
I shall let everyone decide. You have the real information if you're ready to plop down the money for something way undersized that may only give you a channel or 2.
I would like to add. If you have a dish already. At least 2.4m in size. A few quid for an lnbf won't be a total waste. But don't purchase anything fancy. And buy the best low loss coax you can afford. You will need every single bit of signal at the receiver you can get.
Good luck.
I tested a UK located Precision Antennas 1.5m dish on C-Band and results were poor to moderate, missing lots of frequencies.
Sure, I got some from the strong satelites such as 40.5W but other than that it was generally poor across most satellites.
Conclusion:
Using a top class prime focus dish it was a waste of time, do not bother with a 1.5m
Thank you Arlo and Moonbase for the replies and info. The only reason I ask is besides loving this hobby, I have
been offered a second hand 1.5 Gibertini for cheap and was thinking of putting it in the back garden and trying
to catch C-band TPs.
I wasn't offered second hand 1.8m or 2.4m so would have to buy brand new and they are quite pricey.
I love these threads as I find the large dish topic and c-band fascinating.
Based on your information and recommendations start with a 2.4m dish, which seems huge to me.
I am based in the UK, southern England specifically, however I could only install a dish of this size in
our back garden.
Does anyone know if there are UK wide rules or regulations on large sized dish installations?
I don't mind if I have to speak to and/or reveal my plans to my local council, but I would hate it if
I had to get my neighbours acceptance/permission to do something in my own back garden?
I think this is a fair question for this thread as it pertains to installing a large dish.
We have been all over this before with your questions on dish sizes for C-Band reception in the UK and planning permission.
'ere read this starting on page 8, post 159 of the below topic.
C-Band/Ka-Band Reception in the UK (Dish Project: LNBs, Dish, Alignment) - Post your results here...
A friend will be re-installing/re-aligning my Dish next month as I am sick of getting nothing from 4W, when I know I used to get some of the Beams (also lost ENTV on 5W). My East Arc is set up stronger at Present (Badr4 26E superb even in bad weather). But I think we Aligned on 13E and adjusted...
www.sat-universe.com
I tell you one last time, get a 1.8m dish or a 2.0m dish and mount it on a mobile platform (pallett on castors).
No planning permission required, plenty C-Band reception with a 1.8m dish, even more with a 2.0m dish.
We have been all over this before with your questions on dish sizes for C-Band reception in the UK and planning permission.
'ere read this starting on page 8, post 159 of the below topic.
C-Band/Ka-Band Reception in the UK (Dish Project: LNBs, Dish, Alignment) - Post your results here...
A friend will be re-installing/re-aligning my Dish next month as I am sick of getting nothing from 4W, when I know I used to get some of the Beams (also lost ENTV on 5W). My East Arc is set up stronger at Present (Badr4 26E superb even in bad weather). But I think we Aligned on 13E and adjusted...
I tell you one last time, get a 1.8m dish or a 2.0m dish and mount it on a mobile platform (pallett on castors).
No planning permission required, plenty C-Band reception with a 1.8m dish, even more with a 2.0m dish.
I sincerely apologise Moonbase as I had forgotten about that thread and the previously discussed issues.
I hope no offence was taken as it was a genuine mistake.
No offence taken, no need to apologise.
All this theory gets you nowhere, fretting about this, that and t'other.
Just get on with it, source the kit, get it installed and tell the neighbours where to go.
Sorry fellows. There is a few things you may not quite grasp.
Ku and ka satellite transponders are either meant for commercial or home reception.
DBS transponders meant for subscription home services that use small sub 1m dishes have high output power.
FTA transponders have quite a bit less output power. How much exactly, not so sure "over there". But the higher frequencies in the 11-12 GHz range for ku band and in the 18 GHz range can get by with smaller dishes.
When you dive into c band reception where the downlink frequencies hover around 4 GHz. And the fact the signals are meant for commercial (TV, hotel, etc.) reception.
Lower microwave frequencies require a bigger antenna. And the transponder downlink power is a fraction of the power of the other options.
Kippysat. "Based on your information and recommendations start with a 2.4m dish, which seems huge to me".
Please consider that the bare, bare minimum dish size for experimental c band reception. At that size you will find yourself wondering why satellite charts show all of those channels, yout you can only receive a few.
You can stand out in the yard at night and see Venus and Jupiter quite well. Mars and Saturn quite well. To get the details a small telescope will do.
More detail requires a larger telescope. Then you may even where Uranus and Neptune are. At that point you will need a big time telescope. I mean a big one.
Make sense?
Ku and ka satellite transponders are either meant for commercial or home reception.
DBS transponders meant for subscription home services that use small sub 1m dishes have high output power.
FTA transponders have quite a bit less output power. How much exactly, not so sure "over there". But the higher frequencies in the 11-12 GHz range for ku band and in the 18 GHz range can get by with smaller dishes.
When you dive into c band reception where the downlink frequencies hover around 4 GHz. And the fact the signals are meant for commercial (TV, hotel, etc.) reception.
Lower microwave frequencies require a bigger antenna. And the transponder downlink power is a fraction of the power of the other options.
Kippysat. "Based on your information and recommendations start with a 2.4m dish, which seems huge to me".
Please consider that the bare, bare minimum dish size for experimental c band reception. At that size you will find yourself wondering why satellite charts show all of those channels, yout you can only receive a few.
You can stand out in the yard at night and see Venus and Jupiter quite well. Mars and Saturn quite well. To get the details a small telescope will do.
More detail requires a larger telescope. Then you may even where Uranus and Neptune are. At that point you will need a big time telescope. I mean a big one.
Make sense?
manic01
Super VIP
- Messages
- 2,517
1 metre dish is maximum for fixed but if you mobilise it you should be ok, if fixed you risk trouble, wether you get hassle is a risk you take and possibly a costly one.
No, this is not true with respect to the UK.
I am located in the UK and have used both 1.8m and 2.0m dishes for C-Band on the satellites visible to a UK location.
With a 2.0m dish a lot of the frequencies/satellites on the visible arc are lockable.
There are differences in C-Band between USA and UK locations, what applies in the USA does not necessarily translate to the UK.
Take it from me, a UK resident, a 2.0m dish in the UK is acceptable for decent C-Band reception.
Very interesting. Maybe you could tell a satellite or two you receive well and the transponders you receive on it.
Not a problem.
Lets start with C-Band from 40.5W, last time I checked I received over 200 channels from this satellite.
I think it was somewhere around 220 last time I counted and was probably most if not all of the listed transponders?
This was with a Precision Antennas 2.0m prime focus dish using a variety of LNB's such as Norsat, Titanium and Zinwell with polariser barrels and feeds with dielectric plates.
Other satellites I have received and locked C-Band frequencies with the same setup are listed below:
57E, 53E, 51.5E, 49E, 46E, 38E, 20E, 10E, 4.9E, 3.1E, 2.9E, 0.8W, 5W, 8W, 11W, 18W. 22W, 27.5W, 43.1W and 47.5W.
I am blocked from receiving 55.5W, 58W and 65W due to trees and buildings at my current location but think they will also be receivable with a 2.0m dish.
Some of those satellites are harder to receive than others. Paksat at 38.0E is a notoriously difficult catch in the UK but I managed to lock frequencies from it
For the purpose of @kippysat I think a 1.8m or 2.0m dish will provide many hundreds of channels from the various satellites visible to a UK location and be a great introduction to the world of C-Band.
For anyone based in the UK with a 24/7 critical need for C-Band reception in all weather conditions I would recommend a dish larger than 2.0m. The OP of this topic is possibly in this category?
However, for hobby purposes and reception of hundreds of C-Band channels I think a 1.8m or 2.0m dish will do the job more than adequately.
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Thank you and appreciate the information. This is what makes the forum so good.