Astra channels not found on dual-feed

henrypalmer · Mar 10, 2009

Hello to Everybody.
I am new to this forum and I write you about a problem I have recently.
I am using a 82 cm. dish with a single-feed LNB (Fenner) and an analogic (Fenner) satellite receiver and I have correctly received both Astra 19° and Hotbird 13 (of course not at the same time!) for more than ten years.
About two weeks ago I decided to upgrade to a Metronics monoblock-dual feed LNB (in order to receive both Hotbird 13° and Astra 19° at the same time) and a Madtek DST-200AUC Combo DBV-S and DBV-T receiver.
It uses DiseqC 1.0 and 1.2 to switch LNB channel to receive Hotbird and Astra respectively on ports A and B.
I put the Hotbird feed of the LNB on the central part of my dish-mast and, looking at the dish from rear, the Astra LNB is on the right side. This has to be bent 10° counterclockwise in order to receive Astra, and the dish azimut and elevation has to be set to Hotbird channel- this according to Metronics LNB instructions-
I did so and perfectly received Hotbird channels (I am only interested in FTA for the moment), but not able to receive Astra channels.
I tried to change the inclination of the Astra LNB in order to fine tune the signal, but without success.
I have also put the "B" LNB as master one for checking its functionality, and it does receive perfectly hotbird signal on port B and all the channels.
I tried to put the main LNB on Astra Azimut and Elevation (in order to check Astra satellite reception on my dish) and used a satellite finder to look for the signal, and I did find it, but the "signal" and "quality" bars on my receiver still indicates zero (while are 95% for signal and 90% for quality for hotbird).
So here there are my questions:
1) Is there anything wrong in my installation?
2) Is it possibile that Astra quality in my dish is enough for receving analog channels while not enough for digital ones? (maybe due to some houses in front of my one)
3) I use transponder 1 on Astra for reference on signal strenght and quality on my receiver, is it possibile that maybe that transponder is a very weak one?
4) Does anyone has any suggestions, improvements? Further tests?

Thank you very much to anyone for your help and for being so patient.

dmgp · Mar 10, 2009

hi !It sounds to me as though you are infact using the b lnb to receive hotbird which would mean your dish is six degrees out of line Suggest u put a wet cloth over the offset lnb to make sure you are not getting a signal throughit and try and align the main focus one correctly on Hotbird.Your setup seems to be right, I would usually have the main lnb designated as A. Good luck.rgds dmgp

henrypalmer · Mar 12, 2009

dmgp said:
hi !It sounds to me as though you are infact using the b lnb to receive hotbird which would mean your dish is six degrees out of line Suggest u put a wet cloth over the offset lnb to make sure you are not getting a signal throughit and try and align the main focus one correctly on Hotbird.Your setup seems to be right, I would usually have the main lnb designated as A. Good luck.rgds dmgp

Thanks for the kind reply. I tried to put a wet cloth on the offset LNB but I still receive strongy hotbird signal.
I also put the offset LNB on the main mast slot and left really bent downwoards the now-offset LNB (just to exclude the offset LNB to receive something by chance) and, on the port B this time, I still receive a strong Hotbird signal.
I remember Hotbird and Astra positions for I moved my dish when I had the analog receiver and single LNB and I had no trouble in receiving both satellites obviously not at the same time, and I notice the Hotbird position is more or less the same.
when I use the satellite finder to locate Astra I find it but in that position there appears to be no signal no quality at all(when connecting the receiver)at least on transponder 1, I selected transponder 27 and has a 96% signal but with 0% quality.
I remember too that that is, more or less, the Astra position when I used the analog receiver and single-LNB combination.

dmgp · Mar 12, 2009

Hi Henrypalmer
Don't know where you are and I do not know the receiver either, possibly like some Echostar receivers the setting is not in the diseqc menu as such and you have to use the 'toneburst' option rather than diseqc port number. The Astra LNB should be on the right looking at the dish from behind, all I can suggest is the wet cloth over the main prime focus LNB and try to find Astra on the other. There is no real way of testing whether the diseqc switch in the monoblock is actually working, and I suppose it could be faulty. If you try agin with a single LNB, and peek the signal on Hotbird and then change to the monoblock it should be almost correctly aligned ,although it needs to be slightly higher than the main one. Still no astra and it's got to be the switching set up or a faulty monoblock. Hope this helps,
regards
dmgp

AM556 · Mar 13, 2009

The signal from Astra enters the dish face lower, so exits the dish higher, your offset LNB, to the right looking from behind, should be higher than the central LNB focussed on Hotbird.
Have a look on Kingofsat or Lyngsat for an ACTIVE transponder on Astra, you will spend all day looking for an inactive transponder because it's not transmitting.
Best of luck.

henrypalmer · Mar 14, 2009

AM556 said:
The signal from Astra enters the dish face lower, so exits the dish higher, your offset LNB, to the right looking from behind, should be higher than the central LNB focussed on Hotbird.
Have a look on Kingofsat or Lyngsat for an ACTIVE transponder on Astra, you will spend all day looking for an inactive transponder because it's not transmitting.
Best of luck.

Yes, it should be 10 degrees higher according to the monoblock instructions, looking the dish from behind.
I put a wet cloth on the main LNB and hotbird signal totally disappeared. This is normal, of course, but I stll cannot find any Astra channel with the offset LNB.
The problem is "how can I set it exactly 10% higher"? I tried to put the offset on the same level as the main one, and then put it higher slightly step by step, but I don't know how to monitor the signal. I haven't found a list of working transponders on Astra satellite. Some transponders, anyway, (such as 27 or 28) gave me 95% of signal but 0% of quality.
I don't know if it is indicative of something, but when I tried to make a search of channel this time with the offset LNB with a wet cloth on, The receiver find all the Hotbird channels fine but no radio at all (and usually it finds more than 200 radios).
I have also tried, days ago, to put the offset LNB on the main mast slot, and tried to find Hotbird signal with it, and all worked fine. I twisted the now-offset LNB downwards and on the left side, so that Hotbird channel couldn't have been detected by the offset LNB "by chance". So both the LNB are working correctly, even if my impressions are that :
1) There might be a wrong inclination of offset LNB and so I cannot receive Astra channels
2) The receiver cannot give a correct signal to the LNB to switch the DiseqC setting. By the way, there is a specific setting for each satellite where you can put the type of LNB you use, if it uses a 22Khz signal and the disecq port in use. I put A as Hotbird switch and B as Astra switch.
3) There is something wrong in the LNB, but I cannot immagine what.
4) The signal is not good for receveing Astra in my dish, but is it possible that I can catch Astra analog channels while not the digital ones (even just one channel?)

Just some notes: When I bought the new receiver a 15 days ago, it had to be substituted on the same day because it has not been working. Some days after I decided to substitute the LNB just in case of malfunctioning. I think it would be very unlikely to have two broken receivers and LNB monoblocks.

danieljack · Mar 15, 2009

If you recieved the astra analogue channels i find it unlikely that you won't recieve the digital ones.

To monitor the signal either use a meter, or use the meter on your reciever. You could always move a portable tv out by the dish and monitor it that way.

You could always try going at this the opposite way around. Set the dish up on 19e and use the offset for 13e

Just to check, you did get a 6degree monoblock ?

henrypalmer · Mar 17, 2009

danieljack said:
If you recieved the astra analogue channels i find it unlikely that you won't recieve the digital ones.

To monitor the signal either use a meter, or use the meter on your reciever. You could always move a portable tv out by the dish and monitor it that way.

You could always try going at this the opposite way around. Set the dish up on 19e and use the offset for 13e

Just to check, you did get a 6degree monoblock ?

I forgot to tell you that I write from Italy, Massa, North of Tuscany.
I used a meter either to find the hotbird signal and the Astra one.
I have already used the main LNB in the Astra dish position but, even if the meter finds it, there is 96% of signal in the receiver indicator but still no quality and therefore no channels found. And the LNB locate the Hotbird channels perfectly so it should be perfectly working. That's the point I really don't understand.
Yes, I have a 6 degree monoblock.

Ah, there might be a chance that Astra transponder location on my decoder were old, and it might be necessary a firmware or transponder position update. But, even so, I don't understand why a blind search (this option is available on my receiver) finds no channels on Astra position. And the blind search does search any available transponder on the satellite, is it right?

Thank for any possible further advice.

danieljack · Mar 17, 2009

Just to establish that you can definatly recieve Astra 1, switch your reciever to 10832H 22000 5/6 which carries sky news international. Line the dish up on astra 1 using that transponder from the recievers meter. Then scan that transpoder only. Let us know how you go on.

AM556 · Mar 17, 2009

You didn't find any radio channels on Hotbird??
Is your channel list full? Though doubtful with a new receiver.

96% signal but 0% quality indicates a non-active transponder.
A blind scan should find anything active, irrespective of transponder list in your receiver.

Check and double cross check your LNB settings for both sats.

henrypalmer · Mar 18, 2009

I have good news and bad news.
I put the dish on the Astra 1 position leaving the "A" LNB on the mast slot, and I did find all Astra channels!
So there appears to be no real signal problems. therefore I put the "B" LNB on the mast slot leaving the "A" LNB as offset with a wet cloth on, and this time I cannot found no channel. I haven't moved the dish by a single inch, but no signal at all (I obviously switched back all parameters in Decoder menu for "B" receiver as Astra DiseqC port B).
I have tried also one more thing: I put the now Offset "A" LNB in a position for receiving Hotbird channels (this time at the left of the main LNB, not at the right side) and it did work! Obviously the signal quality is 60% and not 89% as before, but channels are all good as before. The main LNB, anyway, still doesn't receive Astra channels (I obviously left the dish in the Astra position, as I found it with the finder)

My impression is either:
1) The "B" LNB is faulty
2) The receiver has wrong settings for receiving the "B" signal
3) There is an incompatibility between the Monoblock and the Receiver, at least for receiving both satellites.

As far as possibility 1) is concerned, as I wrote before, it should have been very unlikely to have tried two faulty monoblocks or two faulty receivers.

Here there are my receiver settings for both Satellits:

Satellite name: Hotbird
Transponder (transponder numbers and frequencies)
LNB Type: Universal (other options are Normal, OCS C-Band, Wideband)
Low Freq: (transponder low freq.)
High Freq: (transponder high freq.)
22K: Auto (other options are non active)
0/12: 0 V (other option is 12 V)
DiseqC Switch setting: Port A (Port B, C, D and none are available)
LNB Feed (Volts): Auto (other options are Non active, 14 V and 18 V)

Satellite name: Astra 1C, 2C
Transponder (transponder numbers and frequencies)
LNB Type: Universal (other options are Normal, OCS C-Band, Wideband)
Low Freq: (transponder low freq.)
High Freq: (transponder high freq.)
22K: Auto (other options are Non active)
0/12: 0 V (other option is 12 V)
DiseqC Switch setting: Port B (Port B, C, D and none are available)
LNB Feed (Volts): Auto (other options are Non active, 14 V and 18 V)

Please let me know your opinions. Many thanks again to everybody.

danieljack · Mar 18, 2009

I would say it'd down to the lnb being faulty.

AM556 · Mar 18, 2009

Hi again Henry
Have a check that your receiver uses Diseqc 1.0,1.1 or 1.2 and that your monoblock uses the same.
If the LNB or a switch isn't receiving any or the correct version of Diseqc, it will default to give you port A.
I have had Diseqc switches that, despite being labled port A,B,C,D etc correspond to different port numbers or letters from the receiver! In that, giving the Diseqc switch a feed from an LNB pointed at Astra into port C, would be picked up by the receiver when told that Astra is on port D. Confusing to say the least, shouldn't happen but it does.
So....try using your offset LNB (port B) as the main LNB, other one covered, and set your receiver to other Diseqc ports (C,D etc).
Worth a try mate.
Rob

henrypalmer · Mar 22, 2009

Thanks Rob.
I did it as you suggested, but no channels found at all, either on port A, B, C and D (Dish in Astra position and "B" LNB on the mast-slot) Of course the offset LNB receives all Hotbird channels, if I put the wet cloth out.
I started thinking that it might be an incompatibility between Receiver and LNB.
Anyway the receiver does support DiSEqC 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 (according to instructions)
The LNB supports (according to instructions manual) DiSEqC 1.0 and 1.2 compliant receivers.
What about the other LNB settings? The LNB type, the 22K signal and the 0/12V switch?

PS - Of course the Astra dish position is correct, as if I put the "A" LNB on the main slot it does find all Astra channels.

henrypalmer · Apr 12, 2009

There are some news I don't know if good enough in order to solve my problem.
I try to scramble the port settings (that is, use C, or D, or B port even in LNB used to set as "A", the only one that's working right now) and the LNB, whatever the port, find only Hotbird channels with an offset, leftsided "A" Hotbird LNB. The rightsided, central "B" LNB doesn't find any Astra channel (and the dish is indeed in Astra position, because if I replace "B" LNB with "A" it did find Astra channels!)

I also borrowed another single LNB and a switch from a friend. I cannote use two LNBs at the same time because I haven't got a bracket where to put the second LNB, but leaving the dish in the above position, the single central LNB did find Astra channels.
But there is one more odd thing: when the LNB is connected on the A switch connection port, Astra channels are visible either on receiver port A and C but not B and D, while when I connect it to the B switch connection port, they are visible on receiver port B and D, but not A and C.

So I wonder:

1) Is there anything wrong with my receiver?
2) It has been rambling on my mind that maybe the cable (30 mts long) could be too long? Or is there anything wrong with my installation?
3) As far as my double-feed monoblock LNB is concerned, I called Metronics but they couldn't help me at all.

Thanks to everybody for any possible good clue.

henrypalmer · Oct 31, 2009

A good (or bad) news after a while. I took both LNB and receiver to a friend's house in order to have a try. It did worked! Either with the friend's receiver and my LNB (a Philips Goldbox) and the combination of my LNB and my receiver! All Astra and Hotbird channels have been found on Port A and B at first stroke!
So, I start wonder what's wrong with my installation at home: cable? But if anything with the cable would be wrong, why I found either hotbird channels or Astra channels with no problems? Could be an interference that compromise receiving both satellites at the same time?
I have not the faintest clue at this point. Please send me suggestions, thank you!

bolecha@yahoo.com · Nov 4, 2009

Hi henrypalmer,
It seems you have a problem with your LNB setting, make sure the LNB type & LNB frequency is correct before you procced.

bolecha.